High volume of "Seconds" and "Used" Guilds

[GF20]

Is it me, or is there a high volume of stamped "used" or "factory seconds" Guilds available on the market? When you look through the Taylors on eBay, there seem to be very few of these available.

Is this a symptom of better quality control, or is it because Fender is not producing a strong product?

 

[jazzmang]

When the Tacoma plant was being shut down, it is our understanding that Fender basically sold the remaining stock of guitars as factory seconds, with no warranty.

This seems especially true of the Contemporary series guitars also.

I have yet to see a single factory second from the CT facility.

 

[chazmo]

Insightful question.

It's my understanding that since 2009 (production in New Hartford) there is none of this. Quality is a top concern for these folks, and you won't see seconds from this facility.

However, what you're seeing is the dumping of factory rejects from the prior Tacoma facility, which was shut down at the end of 2008. I don't know exactly how this happened, but many of these rejected guitars were sold (I guess) to reclaimers who are reselling them to customers now. Fender has no warrantee on these, and this is a caveat emptor situation for buyers!!!

 

[chazmo]

OH, by the way, I think there are also second GAD (Chinese factory) on the market as well. I don't know anything about how these came to be.

 

[Jeff]

.

I have yet to see a single factory second from the CT facility.

Would seem a good move to run Ct 2nds thru a bandsaw. Or at least change the headstock/lable logo to Fender.

 

[dreadnut]

If they'd ever keep 'em in one place long enough to work out all the wrinkles...hopefully they won't pull the plug on Connecticut in a few years :roll: Fender owned Guild for what, 6-7 years at Westerly, and some of the best Guilds came out of those few years.

 

[adorshki]

HI GF20: See also these threads for further insights:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18002. and
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17998
It also occurs to me, just speculation, that there may be a lot of perfectly good guitars out there that were liquidated due to the deadline pressure of closing Tacoma. The cost of warehousing vs the cost of shipping to CT, the poor economy, many variables were probably coming into play beyond a few factory blems. In that scenario the same liquidator that was handling all those "blems" might very well have offered to relieve Fender of all that inventory at once in return for a huge price concession. However, Fender may have been forced to say they couldn't provide warranty on those guitars at the liquidated price. I recall at least one posting from someone who purchased a Tacoma "second" and couldn't find a thing wrong with it.
There may also have been an issue about verifying chain of ownership since the guitars were going to a liquidator instead of a traditional merchant. Again I'm just speculating, but I've seen these scenarios in other manufacturers.

 

[GF20]

Very helpful responses. I would likely never buy one, as the savings in many instances doesn't justify the risk. 8)

 

[chazmo]

I have to admit, this is a pretty touchy subject. On the one hand, the ex-Westerly employees have told us how flat-out offended, angry, and fundamentally demoralized they were when their parts stock and unfinished guitars were dumpstered as Westerly was closed down. Now we have a different approach where Tacoma's stuff was apparently sold to reclaimers rather than destroyed. And look at the bad stain this is leaving on Guild's reputation.

I can't tell you how proud I am of my Tacoma-era F-512. It really pisses me off though that I'll forever be defending its honor rather than holding it up as a shining light in Guild's history. You just can't say it's a Tacoma-era guitar any more without dealing with the issue of seconds/USED junk that got dumped at the end. Sigh.

I just hope that the New Hartford guys have learned a lesson from this and that Fender is letting them do the right thing. That seems to be the case.

 

[adorshki]

It really pisses me off though that I'll forever be defending its honor rather than holding it up as a shining light in Guild's history. You just can't say it's a Tacoma-era guitar any more without dealing with the issue of seconds/USED junk that got dumped at the end.

I'm kinda hopin' that eventually every location will be appreciated for its unique qualities while maintaining the essential "Guild-ness". Or maybe Tacomas will always be a steal and it'll work to this club's advantage! :lol:

 

[chazmo]

Al, absolutely it creates a bargain hunting opportunity.

Unfortunately, it's going to put the Tacoma guitars in a similar light as Coronas. Instead of recognizing a very creative period in Guild's history (numerous, significant changes to Traditional models and an entirely new line of Contemporaries), Tacoma quality will always be suspect and maligned going forward even though the culprits here are the guitars that *didn't* make it through quality assurance.. That's just so wrong to me.

 

[hideglue]

Would seem a good move to run Ct 2nds thru a bandsaw.

You're right, Jeff. It made $ense in Westerly for many years.

 

[dreadnut]

Yeah, there were certainly some bright spots along the years - anyone who has a Tacoma D-50 can attest to that - one of the finest sounding Guild dreads ever made, imho! haven't had the opportunity to play a Connecticut Guild yet, Elderly still doesn't have any. I asked why, and the guy behind the counter said "Too many quality issues" :?

 

[fronobulax]

haven't had the opportunity to play a Connecticut Guild yet, Elderly still doesn't have any. I asked why, and the guy behind the counter said "Too many quality issues" :?

That is a loaded statement and superficially contradicts the glowing reviews of CT Guilds. No concerns about Elderly as an institution, but is there any reason to believe the guy behind the counter had any reason for saying what he did? It was certainly true that when I was selling antiques at retail, "the guy behind the counter" was not a knowledgeable source of information.

 

[capnjuan]

A tale of bad shipping that ends in bad QA/QC "Not every shot lands on the green" Bobby Jones, famous luthier

 

[adorshki]

It was certainly true that when I was selling antiques at retail, "the guy behind the counter" was not a knowledgeable source of information.

True dat. It depends on WHO is the guy behind the counter. I finally got around to visiting the Guild warranty shop out here last weekend. Small family-run business, true luthier shop. The guy behind the counter was the grandson of the founder, so I had confidence in his expertise. They had no Guilds on display. He said they wanted to wait and see if Fender was going to finally settle on a long-term factory location. "Uncertainty" is the quote. I didn't think to ask him about his experience with Tacomas.

 

[Firebird]

Dreadnut: I think your guy at Elderly may be making some false assumtions. The quality at the New Hartford plant is a priority focus and it shows. You must play one of these new ones as I think you will be very impressed. I keep hearing a new D50 calling my name.

 

[FNG]

Yeah, there were certainly some bright spots along the years - anyone who has a Tacoma D-50 can attest to that - one of the finest sounding Guild dreads ever made, imho! haven't had the opportunity to play a Connecticut Guild yet, Elderly still doesn't have any. I asked why, and the guy behind the counter said "Too many quality issues" :?

If he's never seen one, how can he attest to the quality issues?

You should have roughed him up a bit, dread... :lol:

 

[William63]

In 2008 I purchased a factory second F512 and it was the only Guild I was disappointed with. It turned out to be a dud. I sold it and in the process of shipping the neck broke. The new owner wasn't too disappointed he was a luthier and was able to fix it.

 

[geoguy]

Not all of the "used" guitars are junk . . . I have a Tacoma F-412 that is stamped "used" allegedly due to a finish touchup at the binding, on the treble side of the neck near the first fret. That might be true, I can't find any other flaws on it. And I have to look closely to see the touchup at all.

That guitar has a wonderful tone, & its diminished resale value due to the "used" stamp is irrelevant to me. I got it for a great price, & don't intend to sell it anytime soon..

But, it may be best to purchase one of those "used" instruments in person instead of on-line.

The stores that are taking a wait-and-see attitude re: stocking new Guilds may also be waiting for the economy to turn around. I would do the same, if I were in their shoes.