Hello and NGD - 1981 Starfire IV

[Factual Frank]

Hello folks

I recently picked up a 1981 Starfire IV in good condition. It does not have the Guild HB-1 pickups. It also does not have an original case.
But I really like the build quality, neck, and weight of the guitar. I also prefer the regular tail piece. I noticed there are not a lot of used SF-4 guitars from the 80's available on the market (mostly 70's and 90's).

I went through the wiring. All of the pots are original except for the neck tone. It had an old dimarzio 250k in there and I replaced that with a 500k. I left the original 200k Guild tone in the bridge. I also rewired it to "bright mod" from a schematic I found on this site.

It had a set of Ibanez pickups from an ArtCore and Gibson sized rings. Once I saw the asking prices for a set of used original Guild pickups, I decided to install some Diamarzios I had on the shelf. I ordered a set of new rings from Guild which fit perfectly and included screws. I was happy about that. All I had to do was drill an extra center hole which was easily done by placing the two rings face to face. I also added some orange drop caps while I had everything apart (220 neck, 330 bridge).

I started with a set of Air Classics. I really liked the neck but not so much the bridge. So I swapped out the bridge for a Tone Zone. At first I thought this might be a little much but it sounds good. I had the pickups on the shelf so I figured let me just try it before I spend any money. I play mostly 70's classic rock (Cream, ABB, ZZ Top, etc) and blues. I use the neck pickup mostly. Switching to the bridge is like adding a boost pedal so it works well for some solos or if I need a hard rock sound. Both pickups do clean up nicely when I roll down the volume and the neck does not get too dark.

My amp is a 90's Mesa DC-5 combo. The Dimarizo "F" spaced fits in the ring no problem. I noticed that a SD "trembucker" chrome cover would not fit. The only thing else I needed to do was add a some piece of sponge under one side of the bridge pickup to level it with the strings. The wiring still goes to the pickup cavities so swapping is a breeze.

I have a few questions if folks would like to share their opinions:

1. Do you think the HB-1 pickups would be good for the music I play? How about the new HB-1s? I am not completely against spending a few hundred for a set but if they are more for jazz/mellow rock than I'm not sure I should bother. I do, however, like the idea of the guitar being all original.

2. While I had the guitar apart, I cleaned it up and took some measurements. It appears that the fretboard is a compound radius going from 7.25" to 9.5". Is this a factory option or standard neck? I really like it so I don't really care but I was curious because I didn't think compound necks were common back then.

3. For those of you who own multiple Guilds, do you notice a big difference with a maple vs mahogany neck (besides the weight)? I originally wanted to get a 335 (which I believe has a mahogany neck) but this guitar was offered to me at a price that was significantly cheaper than a Gibson so I took it. I see that some of the Starfire guitars did have mahogany necks.

Thanks again for this forum. I have already used it to help wire the guitar.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Welcome! Stick around - nice folks around here. The electric LTG'ers will be along shortly with answers, speculation, advice, veers, etc.

 

[GGJaguar]

Welcome to LTG and congrats on your new Starfire 4! It looks great and you have the version with a master volume and ebony fingerboard, but without a pickguard! You don't see as many Starfire 4's from the 1980s because they were only made for about half of the decade. It wasn't reintroduced until 1990.

As for pickups, I like the reissue HB-1s that are made in Korea. I find them articulate and bright, but maybe not as 3-D as most PAF style pickups. To be fair, I like bright, chimey pickups because I play power pop. They take pedals well, too, and aren't terribly expensive. You can check out some sound bites of them in GAD's excellent review of the S-100.

I'm not sure about the compound radius so I can't comment.

I have a lot of Guilds with mahogany and maple necks and I really can't tell too much of a difference. An apples-to-apples comparison is my X-175 and X-500. Both were made in 1976, have HB-1 pickups and are strung with pure nickel 11s. The X-175 has a mahogany neck and slightly smoother top end while the X-500 has a maple neck and is a little brighter sounding. Is it due to the neck? I dunno. Could be the pickups, pots, etc., but that's the closest comparison I can make.

 

[Factual Frank]

Welcome to LTG and congrats on your new Starfire 4! It looks great and you have the version with a master volume and ebony fingerboard, but without a pickguard! You don't see as many Starfire 4's from the 1980s because they were only made for about half of the decade. It wasn't reintroduced until 1990.

As for pickups, I like the reissue HB-1s that are made in Korea. I find them articulate and bright, but maybe not as 3-D as most PAF style pickups. To be fair, I like bright, chimey pickups because I play power pop. They take pedals well, too, and aren't terribly expensive. You can check out some sound bites of them in GAD's excellent review of the S-100.

I'm not sure about the compound radius so I can't comment.

I have a lot of Guilds with mahogany and maple necks and I really can't tell too much of a difference. An apples-to-apples comparison is my X-175 and X-500. Both were made in 1976, have HB-1 pickups and are strung with pure nickel 11s. The X-175 has a mahogany neck and slightly smoother top end while the X-500 has a maple neck and is a little brighter sounding. Is it due to the neck? I dunno. Could be the pickups, pots, etc., but that's the closest comparison I can make.

Thanks for the feedback! I may try a set of the new HB-1s.

 

[GAD]

Welcome.

Some notes:

Drilling an extra hole is a sin - those rings are hard to come by! Oh they're the new ones? Carry on, then.

I doubt the radius was compound from the factory but they were carved by hand if I recall so who knows. I think it should be more like 12" though. I have an '80s Starfire I could measure if I can find my gauges. Every other Starfire I've measured has been 12" except for my '92 which my records show as 20". You can never trust that a used guitar wasn't altered.

HB1 pickups are good for everything.

 

[walrus]

Welcome to LTG! Cool guitar!

walrus

 

[Factual Frank]

Welcome.

Some notes:

Drilling an extra hole is a sin - those rings are hard to come by! Oh they're the new ones? Carry on, then.

I doubt the radius was compound from the factory but they were carved by hand if I recall so who knows. I think it should be more like 12" though. I have an '80s Starfire I could measure if I can find my gauges. Every other Starfire I've measured has been 12" except for my '92 which my records show as 20". You can never trust that a used guitar wasn't altered.

HB1 pickups are good for everything.

Thanks for your comments. I learned a lot about the Guild pickups from you! I expected the board to be a 12" radius.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! One thing that definitely needs correction, the truss rod cover is mounted upside down!



Ralf

 

[Factual Frank]

Welcome to LTG! Cool guitar!

walrus

Welcome to LTG! One thing that definitely needs correction, the truss rod cover is mounted upside down!



Ralf

Better tone!

 

[jp]

Welcome to the forum, Frank. A lot of the Guild electrics up to the 80s had a 9.5" radius. I think that changed when Fender took over, though and standardized them more towards 12".

So glad to hear that you're also a fan of the Mesa DC series. In the past, I've had two DC-5s (head and combo) and a DC-3 and loved them all. It's the perfect Swiss army knife amp that works for all styles. Awesome rigs! I do miss mine.

 

[Boneman]

Welcome to LTG and congrats on a fine guitar. I just spent the past hour noodling around on my Newark Street Starfire IV, which comes equipped with their LB1s. I don’t know if those would fit the older SF4 but I like their tones, I think they cover lots of musical genres. Rock on!

 

[SFIV1967]

my Newark Street Starfire IV, which comes equipped with their LB1s. I don’t know if those would fit the older SF4

The little humbuckers would not fit in the larger HB-1 routing. (Well they would fit but with a custom made ring around...)
Ralf

 

[krysh]

welcome and congrats to your great taste in guitars.
The HB-1s fit every style as GAD had mentioned and I love them. I can't compare a maple neck SF-4 with a hog neck SF-4 directly, but my first guild was 1990 SF-4 with all maple and ebony fretboard that was absolutely great with the original HB-1s. The SF-4 I own now is a 1998 with hog neck and Seymour Duncans and is also fantastic, may be a maple neck adds a little more sparkle but to many factors to really tell the difference. I'd give the new HB-1sa try, but if you like it with the pickups you use now just play it, thats what guilds are made for.

 

[Factual Frank]

welcome and congrats to your great taste in guitars.
The HB-1s fit every style as GAD had mentioned and I love them. I can't compare a maple neck SF-4 with a hog neck SF-4 directly, but my first guild was 1990 SF-4 with all maple and ebony fretboard that was absolutely great with the original HB-1s. The SF-4 I own now is a 1998 with hog neck and Seymour Duncans and is also fantastic, may be a maple neck adds a little more sparkle but to many factors to really tell the difference. I'd give the new HB-1sa try, but if you like it with the pickups you use now just play it, thats what guilds are made for.

Sounds good thanks. I have a rehearsal tonight.

 

[Factual Frank]

Welcome to the forum, Frank. A lot of the Guild electrics up to the 80s had a 9.5" radius. I think that changed when Fender took over, though and standardized them more towards 12".

So glad to hear that you're also a fan of the Mesa DC series. In the past, I've had two DC-5s (head and combo) and a DC-3 and loved them all. It's the perfect Swiss army knife amp that works for all styles. Awesome rigs! I do miss mine.

Cool thanks. Maybe the neck was done by hand and is supposed to be 9.5" all the way. My radius gauges don't exactly match.

I traded a Fender '68 custom DR for the DC-5. A pro in the Bay area had it. It is in like new condition. Footswitch included. I was in a band with another guitarist who had a 100 watt Marshall and the Fender couldn't keep up. They are the most affordable Mesas out there, plenty loud, and sound great. But man are they heavy. I think mine weighs 65 lbs.

 

[jp]

I know I've said it before here, but I once had a great conversation with Chris Benson of Benson amps when he was a repair guy at a local vintage shop. We communed about our shared love for the DC-5 preamp section and how great it sounds. They still pull at my heart strings when I see one on CL.

 

[Factual Frank]

I know I've said it before here, but I once had a great conversation with Chris Benson of Benson amps when he was a repair guy at a local vintage shop. We communed about our shared love for the DC-5 preamp section and how great it sounds. They still pull at my heart strings when I see one on CL.

Nice. I tend to use the rhythm channel with the pull boost on plus my volume knob for everything except super clean parts. I leave the lead channel for, well, lead. I have the EQ in a "frown" shape and basically use it as a tube screamer adding mids and some volume. With the tone zone bridge, I easily get the liquid Santana lead tone that will feedback (in a good way) if I leave my pick hand off the strings very long. I have tried running pedals thru the rhythm channel but no pedal sounds as good as the lead channel. I wish the pull boost was foot switchable although there is a volume jump. I guess I could use a pedal instead but then I would need to turn it off when I switched to lead. I have a looper switcher that would do all that but I like being able to adjust things on the fly.

Do you remember how you used it? What amp do you use now?

 

[jp]

It's been a long time since I played out regularly with the DC-5, and I mainly gigged it in a Funk, R&B band using a heavy 70s Strat with stacked Dimarzio humbuckers (HS-2s and -3) that could coil split. I mostly used it clean with T and B at around 4 or 5, M at 2 and the EQ in a tilde form. For slightly gritty or dirty, I mixed it up all the time on channel 2, in combination with a BK Butler Tube Driver. I played in a lot of different bands, including an old timey country band, a blues band, an ever-changing jazz combo, and a host of weird rock bands. Used the Mesa for all of them. It would surprise a lot of people to see me haul it in for a wedding gig.

I've cut down on a lot of gear lately, and I'm down to a blackfaced '76 Fender DR and a Rivera Super Champ. I recently and reluctantly sold a AC-15TBX 'cuz I needed some cash <sigh>. It was my favorite, but I'll replace it with another eventually.

 

[mavuser]

welcome, congrats and enjoy that Starfire. the Dimarzios must sound wonderful, I would just play those until a pair of Guild vintage humbuckers smack you in the face (does not have to be HB-1's...there are Guild variant Dimarzios XR-7 and Duncans as well, and others). really any decent humbuckers should sound great in that guitar