Guild Neck Profiles

[marcellis]

Is there a designation or description of the the neck profiles of Guilds in general and the F65ce in particular?

The F65ce neck is different from any Guild (or any other brand) of acoustic I've played.
A friend described it as closer to a Telecaster neck than an acoustic neck.

I've never played a Guild electric. Do they have the same neck profile as the F65ce?

I know the neck profile on every Guild dread I've owned is completely different from the F65ce.

 

[adorshki]

HI Marc: I've wondered about that myself as all 3 of mine are different. Just in case you never noticed, the nut width of an F65 is 1-5/8" vs 1-11/16" for a D25 and virtually all dreads I can remember looking at specs for. It does count for a little extra playing ease, I can feel the difference in the string spacing for sure. The D25 is the next easiest, and the profile up and down the entire neck is slim like the F65. The D40 is the "hardest" to play and I always wondered why that was until one day I realized the neck profile was "chunkier" especially closer to the nut, compared to my D25. I'd never thought about it until reading comments here about "chunky" necks, someone said they LIKED 'em!.
My "theory" is that the D25 and F65 share a common "target" profile while the D40 was designed with a different neck profile in mind, and it might be one of those little defining characteristics between the dreadnought styles.
I also know it's been explained that the necks always got their final contouring/finish sanding by hand, so even different examples of the same model are going to vary. But I still suspect the original "roughing out" was done according to a "target profile". Maybe Hans or one of the Westerly guys can shed further light, especially about that issue of whether F65's shared necks with electrics. I've seen a few electric specs with 1-5/8" nuts, and it made me wonder too.
Al

 

[marcellis]

Thanks. I had a friend over today. He owns 2 Strats. He told me the F65ce neck was the same as the necks on
his Strats. I've had a Tele owner tell me the same thing. Don't know how that could be true. But that's what I'm told.

It's certainly a very different neck from the D25, D40, or D60.

 

[J45dale]

I too am confused about various Guild neck profiles.
I hear members describe their necks differently, even on the same model, so the profiles must have changed thru the years, or location of build.
I think Guild is all over the place and evasive on spects.
My Corona built 2002 D55 has a thin profile neck that is the same as I play up the neck. I think it is the easiest to play neck I have ever played. But some D55 owners refer to chunky necks??? What gives?
I have often said that a D55 was the only guitar that I have ever knew that I had to buy after just one play, because of the neck. But that may not hold true to every D55. The whole neck profile issue is very subjective.
On a side note, Huss-Dalton has stated that they will build me a short scale, slope shoulder, Rosewood B&S, Red Spruce top Dred with a 1&3/4 inch string spaceing at the nut, using my D55's neck profile. Wow.
Now If I can just find the $.
What do you guys think of such a animal? Sort of a Guild-Gibson-Martin Dred.
Dale.

 

[adorshki]

I think Guild is all over the place and evasive on spects.
My Corona built 2002 D55 has a thin profile neck that is the same as I play up the neck. I think it is the easiest to play neck I have ever played. But some D55 owners refer to chunky necks??? What gives?
I have often said that a D55 was the only guitar that I have ever knew that I had to buy after just one play, because of the neck. But that may not hold true to every D55. The whole neck profile issue is very subjective.
Dale.

Obviously your D55 got the neck that was supposed to go on my D40 and is probably just like my D25's. :lol: :lol: But seriously I think it all goes back to the fact that in Westerly at least they were all hand finished. So there was no way to duplicate a neck profile every time like there would be on a numerically controlled machine. It all boiled down to who was on the belt sander and how much experience he had. That may be why I chose the D25 when I had a choice between 3 guitars that theoretically should have had identical necks, they were all new Guild archback dreads. The D25 just felt the best but I couldn't have explained why at the time.
As for "evasive on specs", I DO think different models were intended to have slightly different neck profiles, but I never saw any promotion of specific neck profiles in any of the lit I've seen. I can see how they wouldn't want to publish "specs" for something that couldn't be consistently produced due to the manufacturing process.
As for F65ce necks being "the same" as strat and tele necks, I supect that strict measurement would show subtle differences but the common characteristic would be the consistent "thinness" all the way up the neck which makes them "feel" the same and which obviously all 3 of us prefer. The depth of the "C" profile is shallower on the guitars we like. It's definitely deeper on some models and brands. That could probably even be corrected if one wanted to refinish the neck once the additional sanding was done.
As for the Huss-Dalton, strictly speaking it would be impossible to "use" the neck profile of the D55 because by definition you want to start with a wider nut and width is after all part of the total profile. They may be able to use the same proportional formula but I think then you'd find that one a bit "chunky". I think you'd actually want them to make the profile a little shallower for it to feel right with the wider nut. All that's just extreme pickiness on my part, because I'm sure they could build something you'd be happy with, which is what's TRULY important. 8) It's a neat idea I just wanted to give you more food for thought.

 

[Rich]

My main electric guitar is a strat and my main acoustic is a D50. I don't know what it is, but I can go back and forth between the two seemlessly. My D50 neck is a joy to play. The neck on my D4 is not so easy for me to play compared to my D50. The D4 seems to have a really flat radius on the fretboard that makes it uncomfortable for me to play bar chords. I would say the same of my singer's D25. The neck is nasty for chords just like my D4.

 

[adorshki]

The D4 seems to have a really flat radius on the fretboard that makes it uncomfortable for me to play bar chords. I would say the same of my singer's D25. The neck is nasty for chords just like my D4.

Now that's interesting 'cause it IS another factor in "feel" and THAT spec is published for D25 and D4's of the same vintage: 12" fingerboard radius. Have those guitars had their necks planed perhaps? I think that's also supposed to be the radius for ALL Guild dreads, at least the official Guid website still publishes that spec in their setup guide, so I believe the D50 should be that way too. I know I'm harpin' on my D25 but that was another selling point to me, it had the best fingerboard radius of anything I'd ever felt up to that time.
The other possiblity might be: "Is the action lowered on your D50 and is it strung up with xtra lights to make it feel so much like a strat?" All the little details added together can make for large differences in playability, is all I'm sayin...but it DOES sound like you can identify that one characteristic as not being the same and it sounds like they really are out of spec while your D50 is IN spec.

 

[Rich]

I'm not sure, but the necks feel really different. My D50 is set up with medium strings and so are the D4 and D25. I can't understand it, either; but I just can't get down with neck on the D25 and D4. I'm not selling them, I just need more time to get used to them. :mrgreen:

 

[adorshki]

I'm not sure, but the necks feel really different. My D50 is set up with medium strings and so are the D4 and D25. I can't understand it, either; but I just can't get down with neck on the D25 and D4. I'm not selling them, I just need more time to get used to them. :mrgreen:

I'm assuming because you have 3 guitars you're familiar with things like set up action. The D25 and D4 may be set up a little high, or maybe even need a little trussrod tweaking, especially considering they're strung with mediums. All those guitars were shipped with lights, at least from the early '90's thru a recent change to mediums at New Hartford.
Set-up spec is 5-6/64 on bass E at 12th fret and 4.5-5.5/64 on high E. Also the nut height can have a surprisingly big effect on feel:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/Musicia ... ction.html
I agree with you about just needing to get used to some guitars. I think in the past that was much commonly anticipated by real players but the modern attitude seems to be if the guitar don't feel like greased butter then lower the **** out of the action until it does, frequently at the expense of tone. In the case of my F65, I REALLY had to get used to a really shallow body. Then I realized that's probably how it's supposed to be, as humans are probably a lot more adaptable than guitars!

 

[Ross]

Thanks. I had a friend over today. He owns 2 Strats. He told me the F65ce neck was the same as the necks on
his Strats. I've had a Tele owner tell me the same thing. Don't know how that could be true. But that's what I'm told.

It's certainly a very different neck from the D25, D40, or D60.

Necks on Strats & Teles vary a lot, perhaps by year of manufacture. I've played some with fairly flat necks, others with thicker, almost semicircular neck profiles.

I have a D-25 acoustic, an M-75 electric, and a Strat. Although I've never measured the necks, they seem to have similar profiles. I can switch among the 3 instruments easily.

There are differences however. Obviously, the acoustic has heavier strings, and they are slightly farther above the fretboard than in the electrics. The biggest difference (to me) is the finish on the necks. The Strat is old, and the finish is worn. The neck is extremely smooth, and my hand slides along very easily. The M-75 has a glossy finish, but is also quite smooth, although not as fast as the Strat. The finish on the D-25 is always sticky from hand sweat (I play this one the most, and I'm negligent in cleaning it ), making it slower. That said, when I play the D-25 it's a different style from the way I play an electric - less up-and-down the neck, so friction is less of a factor.

Between the 2 electrics, the Guild has much bigger frets than the Fender. This makes it much more forgiving of sloppy fingering.

 

[Rich]

I'm assuming because you have 3 guitars you're familiar with things like set up action. The D25 and D4 may be set up a little high, or maybe even need a little trussrod tweaking, especially considering they're strung with mediums. All those guitars were shipped with lights, at least from the early '90's thru a recent change to mediums at New Hartford.
Set-up spec is 5-6/64 on bass E at 12th fret and 4.5-5.5/64 on high E. Also the nut height can have a surprisingly big effect on feel:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/Musicia ... ction.html
I agree with you about just needing to get used to some guitars. I think in the past that was much commonly anticipated by real players but the modern attitude seems to be if the guitar don't feel like greased butter then lower the **** out of the action until it does, frequently at the expense of tone. In the case of my F65, I REALLY had to get used to a really shallow body. Then I realized that's probably how it's supposed to be, as humans are probably a lot more adaptable than guitars!

I usually have my acoustic guitars set up a little higher than what I would prefer. They seem to sound better with action that is a tad higher. I use mediums on everything. Lights sound too thin and tinny for my tastes. I like the boom the mediums give. I agree with you about the nut having a lot to do with the feel. The nut on my D25 is poorly cut compared to my D50.

 

[adorshki]

I usually have my acoustic guitars set up a little higher than what I would prefer. They seem to sound better with action that is a tad higher. I use mediums on everything. Lights sound too thin and tinny for my tastes. I like the boom the mediums give. I agree with you about the nut having a lot to do with the feel. The nut on my D25 is poorly cut compared to my D50.

Yeah, that higher saddle action gives better "break angle" for the strings which puts more oomph into the top. I like lights because they are a perfect compromise gauge for when I want to play softly and/or leads, but I also frequently play REALLY hard like Richie Havens, and the standard set up leaves plenty of room for string travel, which I think makes up for the lighter top load than mediums. Just more food for thought but like you say the nut would be the first thing to fix. When $$$$ allows. :lol:

 

[Rich]

I typically play very hard and run heavier strings on my strat as well as the D50. My sausage fingers push lighter gauge strings out of tune.

 

[marcellis]

This is the first time I could log in for 2 weeks here.
I'm not sure why.

Anyway, Adorishki sent me a fantastic summary of his research on F65ce necks.
It included a quote from Hans Moust.

But it's bad form for anyone to post PM's in a thread. So I'd need their permission.
I can summarize that Adorishki thinks the F65ce neck is unique among Guilds. I agree with that.
Hans pointed out that F65ce necks had different characteristics at different times during the history
of that model.



Sorry I did not get back to reply to this thread. But I could not get into the site for 2 weeks.

 

[adorshki]

Anyway, Adorshki sent me a fantastic summary of his research on F65ce necks.
It included a quote from Hans Moust.
But it's bad form for anyone to post PM's in a thread. So I'd need their permission.
I can summarize that Adorshki thinks the F65ce neck is unique among Guilds. I agree with that.
Hans pointed out that F65ce necks had different characteristics at different times during the history of that model.

Some of that info from Hans that Marc's citing is in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18397