"Guild electrics coming soon !" Hmmm...

tele4tone

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Thunderface said:
capnjuan said:
When FMIC bought Guild in the mid-90s, it 're-issued' the Starfire, Bluesbird, and the S-100. Any Guild re-entry into the electric guitar market, without radical re-design, would be on a re-re-issue basis.

I'd have to agree on the re-re-issue thing. The big three mentioned are the ones we electric guys would like to see come back, and there seems to be a lot of those reissues still floating around. What everyone seems to really want are the 70s S-100s and Bluesbirds and Starfires from the 1960s and 70s. But can you make reissues to those specs and have them be commercially viable? The first S-100 reissues of late 1993 and 1994 were exact of the 70s specs, but soon were modified with wider nut widths and Seymour Duncan pickups.

I'll be curious to see what they come up with. What I would like to see is a reissue of the 1954-63 Aristocrat M-75.

jimmyl51 said:
I own and play old Guilds from the late 50's specifically an Aristocrat and Stuart A-500.
How's about sharing some photos of your Aristocrat and Stuart A-500? :)

I like the meaty necks on the reissues. My 65 SFIV has a crazy small neck. I have much more dexterity on the reissues. My prob with the reissues is the pups and the really thick finishes.

Jeff
 

tele4tone

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krysh said:
well, if they'd offer a starfire bass reissue and a modern 4 & 5-string starfire bass with 34" and modern stringspacing, they'd definately cover a niche.
everybody who plays my old starfire bass says: great tone, but small stringspacing and thin neck. the art would be to make a starfire bass with dark stars and 34" and jazz bass stringspacing that is well balanced and NOT neck heavy....only lakland, dusenberg and warwick offer a real bass similar to this....I'd buy such a modern sf1 with the old pickup position at once as 4 and 5-string.
regarding the guitars, the starfires 2,3,4,5,6 should be back, as well as the reissue of the aristocrat. all other models are already available in other brands they have in fmic.


Krysh,

I agree about the string spacing.

What FMIC product is similar to the S-100 or the S-300. Hamer has the Starfire/Bluesbird/Aristocrat thing covered as far as I can tell.

Jeff
 

capnjuan

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tele4tone said:
... I can not think of one FMIC product that covers this guitar?
Hi Jeff; still digging your 4-barrel 6V6 hot rod? :D

No; Fender doesn't make that guitar ... but except for asymmetrical horns and the shape of the headstock, Gibson does ... they make them in volume and sell them at three quality/price points (from Sweetwater)

Gibson SG special $699 and up
Gibson SG Standard $1,200 and up
Gibson SG Reissue $2,000 and up (to really silly prices :shock: )

According to the legend, Guild made a market in producing Gibson-style guitars that differed only in minor details using ex-Epiphone employees who already knew how to make them, as examples:

ES125tcd-2.jpg


ES335-2.jpg



What the Dronge-era Guild company did was make a less-cost version of good-selling, popular models. The FMICs tried the 're-issue' route; no, I don't know how faithfully they held to the '60s specs but since some people like skinny necks, some like fat ones ... I'm not really sure those kinds of details really matter but what they did get out of 're-issuing' models was the knowledge, down to the tenth of a manhour / 2% scrap factor exactly what it cost to make those models. Whether they made much money or not, they bought some important information.

To compete with Gibson/SGs and one way or the other and until sales improved, Guild would have to either make/sell the same 'grade' guitar for less money than Gibson does or sell a better guitar but at the same price ... either way, to gain a foothold in the market, they'd be sold at a loss. Further, Gibson would probably threaten its SG sellers if they started carrying Guild S-100s which leaves internet sales ... the apparent route for volume sales of Guild acoustic guitars. If I had to guess, I'd say it's too soon to know whether that's going to work or not.

Yes ... I'm being negative but if anybody wants FMIC to get back into Guild electrics, those same somebodies are going to have to come up with a plan that includes recovering FMIC's product line start-up costs in short order and turning a good buck ... otherwise, lots of people waving their hands isn't going to cut it; some want jazz boxes, some want solid bodies, some want Starfires/Bluesbirds. If or until somebody shows FMIC how it can make money, it ain't going to happen.

The party line at LMG will be variations of:

It's not out of the question,
It's still not off the table,
There's been a lot of discussion (which they will call 'excitement') about it,
There's no reason to rule it out ...

Which adds up to a baseless, optimistic 'maybe' ... which is the same leg they flashed last year. The only important positive aspect is the existing Hamer tooling/people ... but that's about making them, it doesn't solve selling them. :(
 

chazmo

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capnjuan said:
[ ... ]Yes ... I'm being negative but if anybody wants FMIC to get back into Guild electrics, those same somebodies are going to have to come up with a plan that includes recovering FMIC's product line start-up costs in short order and turning a good buck ... otherwise, lots of people waving their hands isn't going to cut it; some want jazz boxes, some want solid bodies, some want Starfires/Bluesbirds. If or until somebody shows FMIC how it can make money, it ain't going to happen.

The party line at LMG will be variations of:

It's not out of the question,
It's still not off the table,
There's been a lot of discussion (which they will call 'excitement') about it,
There's no reason to rule it out ...

Which adds up to a baseless, optimistic 'maybe' ... which is the same leg they flashed last year. The only important positive aspect is the existing Hamer tooling/people ... but that's about making them, it doesn't solve selling them. :(

I think there's a lot of truth in what CJ says, but there are two, current factors to keep in mind. First, Fender has been nurturing Guild since the move to New Hartford in 2009. They've had some people on board who understand that making $$ is not the only factor that plays in the music business. I'm not saying this will go on indefinitely, but it's surely been true for a couple of years and NH has found many ways to participate in Fender's future that are not directly related to Guild sales. Call it "halo effect" or perhaps KMC's enormous experience that Fender needs... whatever.... Second, the skills and desire to make 'leccies are all there in New Hartford. The Hamer legacy is still strong with those guys although admittedly nearly everyone is building Guild acoustics...

I think we should all be wary, but I don't know if pessimism is warranted (yet). ;)
 

capnjuan

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Hi Chazmo: in 1962, my friend Fred and I rode the bench for Gene's Laundry and Dry Cleaners Pony League baseball team; no thanks to he and I, it was a really good baseball team. Johnny McG____ caught for the team and hosted the post-season party at his house. Because Fred and I had kept the bench warm and picked up the bats at practice without complaint, we figured we'd earned our Cokes and potato chips.

We were all out on the back porch including Johnny's very pretty sister and her friends and Johnny was doing his thing: blowing spit bubbles. I'd seen people blow smoke rings but never anybody who could form up some spit on his tongue and blow out a bubble ... like a soap bubble only smaller. I admit I was dumbfounded and the chicks ... they were all over Johnny because they'd never seen anybody blow spit bubbles either .... it not mattering to anyone that they popped a few seconds after floating around.

Nothing would please me more than to see Guild prosper making guitars ... acoustic, electric, jazzers, basses ... anything with a G-shield would be okay with me. I agree with you in these respects;

- FMIC is fully 'invested' in the Guild brand. Buying it and then hauling it around the country ... considering the apparent market success, so far that looks like more cash out than cash in.

- Whether they bought KMC specifically as a consequence of Guild's Tacoma financial slip-and-fall or it was just a timing coincidence, they acquired newer physical plant, committed people, and expansion capacity ... the ability to spread the overhead over more units.

I also think if there's anybody out there who can resurrect a product line, it's FMIC. In the late '80s, they started re-issuing Fender's Greatest (amp) Hits; '59 Bassman, Deluxe Reverb, Twin Reverb as well as 'refreshed' designs like the Hot Rod and Blues Deville models ... all of these for people who could do without the headaches and bugaboos of dated electronics and hit-and-miss technical support from scruffy-looking amp shops (they tend not to be especially spiffy places :D )

There are a lot of vintage/re-issue S-100s, Bluesbirds, and Starfires out there and, unlike those murky tube amps, the electronics are simple and there's (I think) a tangible preference for the old/funky/'roadworn'/mojo-covered appearance. That is, I don't know why FMIC stopped making Guild leccies in the first place but so many older, well-made Guilds in the after-market has to act like a damper on sales. As a leader in its industry, either FMIC has a staff economist or has the money to hire one to track its own unit sales v. unemployment, the DJI, CPI, gas prices ... they model their own sales. Unless/until existing product lines meet/exceed expectations ...

Finally, any decision to market Bluesbirds, S-100s, and Starfires necessarily means competing with Les Pauls, SGs, and ES175s/ES335s; it isn't enough to be able to make high-value/moderately-priced guitars ... there's the matter of getting people to buy them and, respectfully, nobody at FMIC who wants to keep their job is going to point to how many people 'friend' Guild on Facebook as a reliable indicator of future sales.

It's a fact of life in large organizations that the people who work in small branch or district offices want to grow their business with the support of the home office; more budget, (in construction, more bonding capacity), new hires ... it's a healthy indicator of interest in advancing the company ... not to mention promotions, corporate visibility, better pay and office space, and better car allowances that go with commercial success. These 'pleas' for more investment are usually met with questions like: who is going to be responsible (translation: who is putting their job on the line?), how reliable are the growth predictions, and why can't the locals produce more profit from the work they have?

I admire Dave Gonzalez' commitment and enthusiasm and I think it's a very fine gesture on their part to entertain LTGers; I'm sure they find it encouraging that so many substantive people show interest in them and their products but, if or until the 'business' people at FMIC get the answers they want, respectfully the conduct of Guild reps as far as leccies go isn't much more than Johnny McG____ blowing spit bubbles. :)
 

fronobulax

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I find the Capn's justified cynicism distressing but difficult to counter. He may be closer to right than I want to admit. :wink:

Does anyone know why Fender stopped making the reissue Guild electrics of the '90's? If the answer is at all related to disappointing sales then we probably have the answer as to why Guild electric production is a dream, and not a reality 10 years later.

Ignoring that, I do think there are Guild models that could successfully compete with new products in the current marketplace. I think the S-100 will be bought instead of a SG or SG clone by people (Kim T. fans, Gibson haters), and I keep waiting for someone to show me what is available new, today, that has the sound and feel of a vintage Starfire bass. If you are going to make the Starfire bass you are already halfway there towards making the double cutaway Starfire guitar so why not go for it? Curiously, these were reissued previously so it may be that while they compete, the market is not big enough to sustain production.
 

tele4tone

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HAHA... I can blow spit bubbles and the girls I knew thought it was gross.....

My four bottle 6V6 tweed rocks.....I got a show this Saturday and we are supposed to have three HD cams there. You'll be able to hear what a Guild sounds like through that beast. It's a southern metal show and every other band will have big ol half stacks. I'm now an artist with Risen amps and the guys were really surprised how much sound I can coax out of that thing with Alnico speakers.

I think it comes down to having the right artist playing Guild electrics. Look what Slash did for the LP. In the later nineties there was a resurgence of the SG as well. Maybe it was Angus Young for the SG. I'm hoping someone else jumps on the bandwagon. Maybe we get lucky and FMIC dumps Guild and someone picks it up.

I think those asymmetrical horns make up for the headstock dive that SG's have. I honestly think the S-100 is a better guitar than a SG.

I really don't think FMIC will do it......but I never thought Soundgarden would be in the studio either.

Jeff
 

capnjuan

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fronobulax said:
If you are going to make the Starfire bass you are already halfway there towards making the double cutaway Starfire guitar so why not go for it? Curiously, these were reissued previously so it may be that while they compete, the market is not big enough to sustain production.
Hi Frono; chances are FMIC has something like a New Products Group; several execs who meet to consider product revisions, new designs, new products, new 'ventures'. It's also likely that FMIC has corporate budget allotted to New Products ... or in a more PC form, 'Innovations'.

Anyway, there's bound to be a portfolio of deals; all of them bundled up with their own paperwork; budgets, sales/profit estimates ... fully worked up; stroboscopic Telecasters, Stratocasters with built-in reverb, Squiers that play themselves ... whatever ... and buried in that portfolio somewhere is bringing back Guild electric guitars. That group will continually evaluate each of the 'opportunities' and force-rank them based on attributes like cost v. potential profits, patent issues if any, make v. buy, degree of difficulty ... a comparative method to weigh risk/reward.

I'm sure Guild electrics are on the list but to some degree and as negative as it sounds, this is a self-proving hypothesis; if it's such a good idea, why aren't they doing it now? Alternatively and other than the Kaman works, what's changed in the last 10 years to justify serious reconsideration? And, before anybody grabs Kaman and runs with it, FMIC has other facilities to make leccies ... after all, it is what they do.

I'm sure the Guild NHers think of Tacoma as a thing of the past but they might not be speaking for FMIC. I think it would make sense for FMIC to sit tight ... wait and see if the NHers can put some sparkle back on the brand ... and then maybe look at it again. Knowing how well FMIC and the instrument market are holding up ... stuff that's not so clear to us ... would be important factors too.


@Jeff: congratulations on your Risen! I've always been a fan of the 6V6's sweet, smoky tone.

For the next week, Fred and I tried and tried to blow spit bubbles ... neither of us ever figured it out ... but back then, that's what being 14 years old was all about :D
 
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