Flats in 2023 that fit Starfire II …recommendations needed

[lungimsam]

Who makes short/medium scale flats that fit Starfire II models other than: TI Jazz JF324, GHS Precision medium scale, Chromes ECB81M, LaBella (flexible and deep talkin medium scale), Rotosound 77 med. scale, Pyramid 640 shorts, and Maxima (no longer made?).

By “fits” I mean the silks and winding taper ends somewhere between the tuning post and nut.

Tried them all. I only liked the TI. The others sounded dead or came with dead strings in the set.

I have TI on the red Starfire and love them but thinking of a brighter flat for the green Starfire. I could use the bright EB Cobalt flats again but they might break again as they don’t fit (they are long scale).
Thanks for the info!

 

[mellowgerman]

I know you're asking for flats here, but have you tried D'addario Medium Scale Tapewounds or Labella Medium Scale Tapewounds? I thought both sounded great, more or less like a brighter flatwounds with better sustain and pliability. I prefer the d'addarios for slightly higher tension and the satin sort of finish they have, but the Labellas were great strings too. If you haven't tried some on your Starfire, I wouldn't rule them out!

 

[lungimsam]

Ok I will check into them. That’s what I am looking for: a no finger squelch noise flat feeling string that’s brighter than TI’s. The black may look good up against the dark green bass, too.
I’d ask you another question but better to start a tapewounds thread!

 

[edwin]

Pyramid medium scale work great. You have to order them from the factory.

 

[lungimsam]

I tried the Pyramids 640 set last week. Arrived with a dead E.
A,D, and G sounded good.
I cannot understand why it’s so hard to get a set of Flatwounds without at least one dead string.
On the upside, they fit the bass perfectly and the green silks look great.

 

[lungimsam]

BTW, at NAMM the Ernie Cobalt flats were introduced in short scale for 2023. 32.5” taper. Supposed to be available this summer. But looks like too short for the Starfires.

 

[mellowgerman]

Since I mentioned tapewounds above, I thought I could add a little note here to report that I just put a set of Labella's White Nylon Tapewounds on my M85 bass and am pretty stoked about what I'm hearing.
I came upon 2 lightly used sets at a super low price - one heavier set 60-115 and one lighter set 50-105. They are technically long-scale sets, but both were already cut for a 32" scale bass with a 2x2 headstock, so I figured I might as well give them a go. The important thing to remember with tapewounds is that a 60-115 set actually consists of a lighter set of roundwounds (probably more like 50-105) with the nylon tape layer wrapped around the outside bringing it up to the heavier overall gauge listed on the package. As a result of this, they have the tension typical to a 50-105 set of Labella roundwounds, which is just right for my M85. They have a nice big fundamental with plenty of bright harmonic content and sustain. Just as the description on the Labella site suggests, they are indeed a bit brighter than their black nylon tapes. My guess is these might have stainless steel rounds underneath the tape winding whereas the black tapes have nickel underneath? Hard to say, but they sound killer on the M85, giving it a bit more of a crisp hi-fi vibe, while still maintaining that big round punch. Also nice and even tone and output from string to string. Looking forward to hearing them in the band mix.

 

[lungimsam]

I love the LaBella white tapes and also the Daddario black tapes. Really great sound.
And thank you for the recommendations!!

But the fact that they don’t ground to the bridge like metal strings do was a dealbreaker fir me because I like when the noise goes away when you touch metal strings with your hand.

Too bad because their tone was great, and just like mellow said, the white is brighter tone. Looks like roundwounds under the wrap. So truly roundwound tone but with the smooth touch and no finger squelch features of Flatwounds.

The Daddario black tapes have a gorgeous, woody clunk when the strings bang on the frets. Like the intro to "You're So Vain" By Carly Simon. Nothing like the annoying metal clank when metal strings bang the frets. I guess you can only get this cool sound with tapes.

It’s just too bad tapes don’t ground out like metal strings. But that’s a personal preference thing. Nothing wrong with the strings.

Here's the sound of the woodsy clunk. Not sure if bassist was using tapes or not but this is what it sounds like:

 

[mellowgerman]

But the fact that they don’t ground to the bridge like metal strings do was a dealbreaker fir me because I like when the noise goes away when you touch metal strings with your hand.

It’s just too bad tapes don’t ground out like metal strings. But that’s a personal preference thing. Nothing wrong with the strings.

Special request if I may! If you do get around to posting those clips, can you point us to a captured instance of this grounding issue? I have heard members on the talkbass forum also mention this and it's one of the biggest mysteries of electric instruments that has come across my radar... I always thought of myself as being super sensitive to grounding & shielding noise/buzz/hum and have many times disassembled and reassembled wiring harnesses due to a subtle ground or shielding hum that even some of my recording friends didn't notice or couldn't hear. Regarding bridges, when the ground wire comes disconnected or makes poor contact there, I hear it immediately, like nails on a chalkboard! When it comes to tapewounds however, I've tried literally dozens of sets and some of them stayed on for long periods of time on certain basses like my Gibson EB-0(MG) and I've never once encountered this grounding issue, as long as the metal ball ends of the strings are making contact with the bridge/tailpiece and the bridge is properly grounded via wire.
I understand the phenomenon, suggesting that human hand contact with the string eliminates a hum/buzz, but again, I've only ever had this happen when the bridge ground wire comes disconnected or has a bad solder. So I am hoping somewhere there is a recording of this tapewound-specific issue, so I can try to understand it better. As mentioned, my Gibson has been wearing tapewounds for a couple of years now and has what are probably the most complicated active electronics of any of my instruments... as far as I can tell, it's dead silent! Through amps, my recording computer/DAW, my Tascam pocket studio, etc. To top it off, the wiring in my house is not great and correspondingly is not a "quiet" electrical environment -- so if an instrument has a hum of any kind, it's likely to be more noticeable at my house than in other places with truly "clean" power. Is it possible that there is a hum frequency that my ears can't hear for some reason? Am I unknowingly frying the ears of innocent passers-by whenever I bring out my Gibson?

 

[James Hart]

Here's the sound of the woodsy clunk. Not sure if bassist was using tapes or not but this is what it sounds like:

Klaus Voormann... unchanged blue silk LaBella 1954 on a 66 P Bass with a big hunk foam at the bridge.

Cult Objects

Cult Objects 1966 Fender Precision Bass (Modell 1962), painted by Klaus in flower-power stile. He used the bass on countless historic recordings and didn't change the old strings until today. 1969 Klaus bought the boots 1971 in London and painted them in his typical drawing style at

www.voormann.com

 

[lungimsam]

Special request if I may! If you do get around to posting those clips, can you point us to a captured instance of this grounding issue? I have heard members on the talkbass forum also mention this and it's one of the biggest mysteries of electric instruments that has come across my radar... I always thought of myself as being super sensitive to grounding & shielding noise/buzz/hum and have many times disassembled and reassembled wiring harnesses due to a subtle ground or shielding hum that even some of my recording friends didn't notice or couldn't hear. Regarding bridges, when the ground wire comes disconnected or makes poor contact there, I hear it immediately, like nails on a chalkboard! When it comes to tapewounds however, I've tried literally dozens of sets and some of them stayed on for long periods of time on certain basses like my Gibson EB-0(MG) and I've never once encountered this grounding issue, as long as the metal ball ends of the strings are making contact with the bridge/tailpiece and the bridge is properly grounded via wire.
I understand the phenomenon, suggesting that human hand contact with the string eliminates a hum/buzz, but again, I've only ever had this happen when the bridge ground wire comes disconnected or has a bad solder. So I am hoping somewhere there is a recording of this tapewound-specific issue, so I can try to understand it better. As mentioned, my Gibson has been wearing tapewounds for a couple of years now and has what are probably the most complicated active electronics of any of my instruments... as far as I can tell, it's dead silent! Through amps, my recording computer/DAW, my Tascam pocket studio, etc. To top it off, the wiring in my house is not great and correspondingly is not a "quiet" electrical environment -- so if an instrument has a hum of any kind, it's likely to be more noticeable at my house than in other places with truly "clean" power. Is it possible that there is a hum frequency that my ears can't hear for some reason? Am I unknowingly frying the ears of innocent passers-by whenever I bring out my Gibson?

On my single coil basses, I get a tiny bit of buzz, but then the buzz goes away when my left hand touches the strings. Silence! The bridge is definitely grounded to the harness on them and there is continuity from strings to the output jack. This is normal for basses.
The problem with tape wound strings is that your hands touching the tape wounds has no effect like this because there is no metal on the strings that touches the bridge. So that minimal buzz that I spoke of does not go away. Here is a clip of the Ric bass with metal strings and also with tapes. Notice with tapes the buzz is not silenced ed by the hands touching the strings. You can hear the difference. Sorry, I did not keep the Starfire with tapewoiunds test recording it seems. But the test recordings with the Ric bass show the effect.

With metal strings, where hands touch and connectivity from strings thru bridge to harness to output jack:


Same bass with tape wounds, same connectivity to output jack, hands cannot make contact thru strings to bridge because nylon winding is non-conductive:

 

[lungimsam]

Klaus Voormann... unchanged blue silk LaBella 1954 on a 66 P Bass with a big hunk foam at the bridge.

Cult Objects

Cult Objects 1966 Fender Precision Bass (Modell 1962), painted by Klaus in flower-power stile. He used the bass on countless historic recordings and didn't change the old strings until today. 1969 Klaus bought the boots 1971 in London and painted them in his typical drawing style at

www.voormann.com

So that's how he did it!

 

[mellowgerman]

Weird! I definitely hear it in the recording there. How is it that I've never heard this with any of my tapes-strung basses?! Had plenty of different basses with them over the years, single-coil and humbucker equipped, active and passive, etc.

 

[lungimsam]

Maybe you have cleaner power down there in Florida!

 

[mellowgerman]

I assumed the opposite would be the case, but maybe ol' Stan has something to do with it?

 

[lungimsam]

Nooooow you tell me!
Play without it tell us if it changes anything.

 

[lungimsam]

Update:
Tried Dunlop stainless flats medium scale 40-100 and they fit the Starfire perfectly and sounds bright and big punchy and full bodied tone.
So for a mellower, plunky tone (delicious) you could go for the TI JF324 and for bright, punchy flats try the Dunlops. They both fit Starfires and sound best to my ears.

 

[mellowgerman]

Well I'm glad you tried em now and not in a few weeks, otherwise we would have had to start a "flats in 2024" thread!

All joking aside, how would you compare them to D'Addario Chromes?

 

[lungimsam]

To my ears and hands, the Dunlop set 40-100 set is lighter tension and brighter, clearer tone than the Daddario chromes medium scale flats set. The Daddarios are bright but have a darker sounding character. The Dunlops are more like a rounds character to them. More response to them and kick like rounds. Not zingy. Strong fundamental. Smoothest wrap I ever played. Very slick to the touch. Not as light tension as TI JF324. Not as heavy as chromes.