EQ'ing a Starfire?

[theonemanband]

Hello,
As a recent newcomer to the electric guitar world, [thirty odd years an acoustic player], my chosen 12string was (is) a Guild Starfire SF1V ST-12; a truly great guitar I dearly love and is my regular gigging guitar.
I am just a little overwhelmed by all the pickup/tone variations so, I would like to ask, do any of you Starfire 1V players keep the pickup selector in the middle (both pickups) and dial in your tones using just the volume and tone pots?
Cheers......Brian

 

[cupric]

Nice guitar! I'm sure someone here will have some answers for you. I have a SFlll and I understand the complexities! There's just so many variations! Good luck!

 

[shihan]

Everybody is probably going to have a slightly different answer; but here’s the way I do it.
I usually use the neck PU. I’ve found more volume on the guitar, less on the amp sounds better than visa versa. I try to keep vol. on 7 or 8, and adjust tone as necessary. Bridge PU I have full up, so it’s a jump from the neck PU. The tone rolled back some, as my SF is very bright.
The middle position gives you many options. I can drop to the middle position for a volume boost, but messing with any of the 4 controls gives a wide tonal palate. Very versatile. If I want a really bighting tone, say early BB King, I’ll use the bridge PU.
I’ve always played this type of control layout, so it’s second nature to me. Don’t be afraid to experiment and find out what works for YOU. Have fun!

 

[cupric]

Please mention the year of the instrument and the pickup type if known. Each guitar will sound different, but some variations of SF over the years are apples and oranges in regard to electronics, body material, etc. Later guitars are much more complex than older guitars generally, at least in regards to electronics. Mahogany is going to sound different than maple, etc.I
Fascinating topic! I have been asking myself a lot of this same stuff lately.

 

[matsickma]

I suggest you first determine how the two pickups are phased.

When I owned a '67 SF12 the pickups were wired out-of-phase. Not sure if that is Guilds standard configuration or not but out-of-phase sound very different than in-phase.
Out-of-phase sound nasaly. You can immediately tell if they are out-of-phase by turning up the guitar volume and tone to maximum and flip the pickup selector switch from neck to middle to bridge. If the loudness in the middle position drops significantly and the tone looses the lower bass frequencies the pickups are out-of-phase.

A guitar with out-of-phase pickups provides another set of tones to explore.

For now I will assume your pickups are in-phase.
In this setup the guitar is best played with the volume on the bridge and neck pickup on maximum. Adjust the tone control per your preference.
It is suggested to have the volume controls on maximum because adjusting the volume often also influences the tone of the pickup and often muddy's up its sound. The middle position, when in phase, adds the sound of both pickups together. You can tweak the volume and tone controls as you wish. Usually only modest adjustment is required.

There is one tone condition that Clapton used to like in the Cream era where he would select the bridge pickup and he would use the tone control to cut out the brighter frequencies to get the "woman" tone. I doubt you would want to do that with a 12-string. Also he was using his Gibson PAF humbuckers. The smaller humbuckers used on the Guild SF4-12 will have a different sound.

We didn't discuss amplifier effects. For most electric guitar playing that is a major influence in guitar tone. For now I assume you are playing the 12-string relativly clean with some reverb.

If you find your pickups are out-of-phase then that is another discussion.

Additionally a 12-string can also be augmented in sounds with a chorus, phase shifter, flanger and echo pedals. Some like a chorus often have a stereo output.

Much for you to explore.

I will tell you I pretty much gave up playing electric for 20+ years and then in my 40's returned to electric. I had to relearn a lot of technique along with amp settings and effects. You won't have that extreme truma because you have a semihollow 12-string but it will be an adventure! Have fun.
M

 

[Guildedagain]

Yes. The middle position is the place to be. I usually have the bridge p'up fairly wide open with tone rolled back a touch and vary the amount of bass with the neck p'up volume. It's like playing a guitar with one giant pickup, endless variables on tap.

As mentioned about, the phase thing. It gives the middle position a completely different sound palette, and when you get sick of it, flip it off and you're back to your original tones, endlessly versatile.

 

[theonemanband]

Thank you all for your replies; interesting!

Following "Matsickma's" on the volume drop in centre position, I would say the pickups are certainly "out of phase" but again, being fairly new to electric guitars, I'm not sure what this means.
Meanwhile, here is my progress so far.......I mostly favour the middle switch position (both pickups), from which I can dial in a tone for most genres I play, using a combination of the volume & tone pots.
I generally use the bridge pickup alone for bright, jangly, Tom Petty/Travelling Wilbury's/Beatles and Byrd's type material.
The neck pickup alone, I find good for pretty close acoustic tones (although augmented by an acoustic simulater).

Overall, I am pretty happy with the results; my question was simply to find out more about the possibilities of the fantastic guitar. All comments and advice are greatly appreciated and very welcome........
Cheers.................Brian

 

[matsickma]

Sounds like you are off to a good start and are already deeply into exploring the various tonal permutations!

In-phase and out-of-phase essentially mean the pickups are either alligned where their output voltages, when combined, add together or subtract from each other.

In acoustic terms its like having two speakers in a box. For "in-phase" you attach the "white" wire to the "+" terminal on both speakers and the "black" wire to the "-" terminal of each speaker. For "out-of-phase" you attach the "white" wire to the "+" terminal of one speaker and the "white" wire to the "-" terminal of the other speaker. "Ditto" for the "black" wire.

When wired up out-of-phase the longer wavelength of the lower frequencies cancel each other out. At the higher frequencies the distance between the center of the speakers or distance between the pickups adds an additional amount of wavelength phase so the higher frequencies no longer cancel each other out. At middle frequencies you get a combination of both effects which results in a complex +/- of tones.

Sound waves in air and Electrical waves on wires (or in air) behave similarly in how they combine.

M

 

[fronobulax]

In and out of phase

Simplistically image each pickup "hears" things. If both pickups are used and in phase the things that are heard in common will be louder than the things heard by only one pickup. If both pickups are used out of phase then the things in common will be cancelled out and you only get things that were heard by one pickup or the other but not both.

The guitar builder determines whether the pickups are wired in phase or out. Sometimes there is a switch to let the player choose.

 

[SFIV1967]

By the way, it's not a "1" "V" but a roman numeral 4! Means IV.

Ralf

 

[Guildedagain]

Who here can read MCMLXXXVII when movie credits are rolling and get it right in the span of a second?

I'm so old I learned it in kiddie school...

 

[SFIV1967]

Who here can read MCMLXXXVII when movie credits are rolling and get it right in the span of a second?
I'm so old I learned it in kiddie school...

Not in a second but with a bit of work...

M = 1000
CM = 900 (-100+1000) (same like why IV = 4 and IX = 9)
Means MCM = 1000+900=1900

Leaves us with LXXX
L=50
X=10
50+10+10+10 = 80

and
VII = 5+1+1 = 7

Result: MCMLXXXVII = 1000+900+80+7 = 1987.

Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

I can decode faster but some of that is a combination of the expectation that a copyright given in Roman numerals is 20th century and the pattern recognition that MCML will be between 1950 and 1989. But yeah, kiddie school.

 

[SFIV1967]

...that MCML will be between 1950 and 1989.

Didn't think about it but yes, that is a much faster way!
Ralf