Does chambering of the Bluesbird really affect the tone?

[sixstringjazz]

If it does, how so? Does the chambered Bluesbird sound more like a semi hollow? Can you really hear the difference between and chambered Bluesbird and say a solid Les Paul? Just curious as I've never owned a Bluesbird, but I have played chambered Les Pauls and aside from the weight, I don't notice much of a difference. The chambering of the bluesbird may be different, I don't know.

 

[adorshki]

I'm not a 'leccie player, but my understanding is it's supposed to increase sustain.
Example: The Youngbloods' "Darkness Darkness". The lead on that songs is on a very early Bluesbird:
http://www.vintageinstruments.com/museu ... lpage.html
If you've never heard the tune, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-CYWbfFoXY
One of the finest recorded Guild performances of all time, in my humble opinion. I've posted it a couple of times before, now it's your turn. :wink:

 

[Walter Broes]

my understanding is it's supposed to increase sustain.

I don't have enough experience with Bluesbirds or Les Pauls to really answer the question, but "enhance sustain" (as in the string sustaining acoustically, not amp-feedback enhanced sustain) would really surprise me.

Lightening a guitar body is going to increase resonance, wich is pretty much the opposite of sustain in a guitar. What you want for any kind of guitar is a nice balance of resonance and sustain for the type of instrument it is. Obviously in a flat-top acoustic you want more resonance, less sustain, in a solidbody guitar, you'd want the opposite balance.

The orignal M-75's (as opposed to the modern incarnation of a BB) is sort of the proof of that : it's a mini archtop, not even a hollowed out slab, but a true hollowbody archtop, and compared to a Les Paul, which is similar sized and solid, it has a lot less sustain, and is more resonant - effectively a mini-jazz guitar.

 

[adorshki]

my understanding is it's supposed to increase sustain.

I don't have enough experience with Bluesbirds or Les Pauls to really answer the question, but "enhance sustain" (as in the string sustaining acoustically, not amp-feedback enhanced sustain) would really surprise me.
Lightening a guitar body is going to increase resonance, which is pretty much the opposite of sustain in a guitar.

Apologies if I misused the term, "resonance" does make more sense, but in the example I posted, I'm pretty sure there is a lot of "amp-feedback enhanced sustain". I thought that body resonance being conducted into the string was the source of the sustain?

 

[jmac]

Can you really hear the difference between and chambered Bluesbird and say a solid Les Paul?

No, you can't

 

[kakerlak]

I may be way off w/ the amateur hour physics I'm about to lay out but it seems to me that, when a guitar body resonates, it's the result of the strings' vibration being transferred to to the wood. The vibration of the strings is effectively absorbed by the instrument and the string sounds for a shorter length of time. Theoretically, the harder, heavier and denser an instrument gets, the harder it is for it to absorb any energy from the strings. The strings then continue to vibrate longer and the instrument sustains longer.

Now, a hollow instrument that vibrates heavily in playing is prone to high volume feedback, which, if just so, can result in near indefinite sustain. It's not natural sustain, though.

Seems like sustain was a dragon that was being chased quite a bit in the 70s and it's the reason you so many things come out of that decade along the lines of aluminum necks, through necks, brass nuts and bridges, etc. All parts designed to make the guitar heavier and stiffer.

 

[john_kidder]

I'm not a physicist, and Walter's arguments make great intuitive sense to me, but every player who has hit a note on my (chambered) Nightbird has commented on its long sustain. Inneresting, huh?

 

[mad dog]

Haven't had the pleasure of comparing solid vs. chambered bluesbirds or les pauls, but have some experience with other guitars.

IMO, yes you can hear the difference. I've owned/own two chambered teles, now own two other chambered guitars. One - the Soloway Swan - is a pretty classic chambering scheme, maple top over heavily chambered ash body. The other, an Airline Tuxedo, is actually a mostly hollow body, with no f holes.

Walter's description is right on. At times it does feel like a trade, sustain for resonance. In the case of the Tuxedo, sustain is notably less than my solid bodies. What you get back is an entirely different feel to the sound ... much more like a hollowbody archtop. The difference is usually not that dramatic. Comparing teles, for example: My G&L ASAT Classic is solid ash body, maple neck. A dense, really nice "push" to the sound when the volume is up. As affected by the 25.5 scale, it's a near perfect blend of sustain and resonance. Quite forceful. My orange partscaster has a chambered ash body, spruce top. Here some of the denseness is gone, traded for an airier type of sound. You can really hear that spruce top ... it's not just the chambering. No lack of sustain, but it is less forceful, more delicate somehow.

It's fun to listen, and to argue about this stuff.
MD

 

[adorshki]

Now, a hollow instrument that vibrates heavily in playing is prone to high volume feedback, which, if just so, can result in near indefinite sustain. It's not natural sustain, though.

That's what I thought was going on. Thanks.

 

[tele4tone]

The BB I owned had a nice chimey resonance, but less sustain. However, if the amp was cranked, feedback and volume increased the sustain. In the long run I think there is more useable clarity in tone than a common LP with a mudbucker. There are some Modded LP's and exceptional vintage ones here and there that prove me wrong. ymmv

Jeff

 

[bootbun]

I have a fair sized collection ranging from fully hollow (Starfire II, Kay k672, Kay Galaxie, Silvertone 1429, Gibson ES-175) through semi-hollow (ES-137) to "solid" (Bluesbird, and 3 different Stratocasters including a fully solid hardtail). I can say in general the hollows have way less sustain. The guitars with the bridges screwed into wood like the Bluesbird or the ES-137 even if semi-hollow sustain like crazy.

At least in my BB there is relatively little natural resonance or "hollow" character to it - this seems to be a more elusive property that comes from the design of the instrument overall. The Kays and my Starfire are the most "resonant" despite being thinline hollowbodies. My hardtail, totally solid Strat is more resonant than the BB.

BTW, Les Pauls for years now (even decades) have been either "weight-relieved" with holes cut in the mahogany or actually "chambered" like a Bluesbird. The current LP Standards are like this. So, you won't get much information comparing the two for these qualities as the models are now more similar than not.