1971 Starfire Bass

[mellowgerman]

Nice! If you get distillers though, I recommend wiring: pickup --> distiller --> 25k volume pot. That way you are taking advantage of the low impedance signal coming out of the Distiller and you'll have a practically flawless, smooth and lossless volume gradient. Then you can wire those separate volumes to a switch or blend control if you like and even to another 25k volume as a master if you so choose.

I think the Distillers will blow your socks off. Total game-changers! EDIT: well you're familiar with the Alembic magic already but they are slightly different (longer battery life for one) and perfectly compatible with Bisonics!
For my Distiller equipped basses I used EMG 25k pots, which you can also source in a stacked/concentric configuration if you'd like to minimize the number of drill holes. I think they even have a stacked volume/blend control available if I'm not mistaken. Lots of options! Just keep in mind, each distiller has a mini-toggle switch for Q/resonance boost, so if you wanted to do separate switches for the coil taps, you'd be looking at 4 mini-toggles total... which sounds fun to me! Not sure if EMG 25k pots come in push/pull, but if not, I'm sure someone makes them.

 

[RVBASS]

Thanks for these suggestions, I will certainly look into what you describe. I’ve had challenges with noise with my Alembic (Series) basses, so I am eager to see how the JTEX Distillers perform.

Trying to think if the pickup-Distiller-Volume sequence will work with the coil tap, or if I have to put the coil tap between the pickup and Distiller since the coil tap determines the source (single or double magnets). Maybe that’s where the toggle switch would go?

 

[mellowgerman]

Happy to offer up my experience!

The pickup to Distiller to volume sequence will work for sure, regardless of whether or not you choose to wire up the taps. The coil tap simply removes a portion of the coil from the equation. So you're just changing what you're feeding the rest of the circuit.
Even if you use a 25k push/pull pot instead of a separate 25k pot and mini-toggle switch, it still functions the same way. Push/pull method puts both components in the same housing, but they still function independently of each other. Hope that makes sense!

 

[RVBASS]

Thanks very much, I will go with the pickup-Distiller-volume (push-pull) sequence and see how it goes. looking forward to hearing how it sounds!

 

[krysh]

I still wish Guild would come up with a 5 -string Starfire bass…

 

[mellowgerman]

Krysh, that would be the one way Guild could convince me to buy a new Starfire!

RVBASS, I forgot to mention, regarding noise - Starfires are a little tricky since it's such a huge cavity, so you can't simply line the entire cavity to shield the bass. That said, I still managed to get mine surprisingly quiet, using high quality shielded wire for all the controls and copper shielding tape in the pickup cavities. You will always get some 60-cycle hum from Bisonics, though Novaks are the most subtle in that department. Either way, they are all single-coils, without a dummy coil, so the 60-cycle will be there, unless the pickups are dialed in equally, so they cancel the hum. The Distiller will not introduce extra hum though. It is for all intents and purposes a silent unit, as long as everything is wired correctly.

 

[James Hart]

I still wish Guild would come up with a 5 -string Starfire bass…

I would be all over a "Starfire Bass VI" like the Fender, Danelectro, or Ric tic tac basses.

 

[RVBASS]

Nice! If you get distillers though, I recommend wiring: pickup --> distiller --> 25k volume pot. That way you are taking advantage of the low impedance signal coming out of the Distiller and you'll have a practically flawless, smooth and lossless volume gradient. Then you can wire those separate volumes to a switch or blend control if you like and even to another 25k volume as a master if you so choose.

I think the Distillers will blow your socks off. Total game-changers! EDIT: well you're familiar with the Alembic magic already but they are slightly different (longer battery life for one) and perfectly compatible with Bisonics!
For my Distiller equipped basses I used EMG 25k pots, which you can also source in a stacked/concentric configuration if you'd like to minimize the number of drill holes. I think they even have a stacked volume/blend control available if I'm not mistaken. Lots of options! Just keep in mind, each distiller has a mini-toggle switch for Q/resonance boost, so if you wanted to do separate switches for the coil taps, you'd be looking at 4 mini-toggles total... which sounds fun to me! Not sure if EMG 25k pots come in push/pull, but if not, I'm sure someone makes them.

Mellowgerman, just wondering if you used short shaft or long shaft EMG 25k push-pull control knobs?

I will look for the insulated wires and plan to shield the pickup cavities as you suggested. I am thinking of creating a smaller enclosure in the control cavity where the controls are, sealing the F-hole, and shielding the closed smaller cavity to try to control for noise. Maybe have a rear cavity cover for entry. I will have to work on all of that. Received the Novak pickups and JTEX Distillers, so I will order the EMG volume knobs when I determi the correct shaft length. Thanks!

 

[mellowgerman]

Mellowgerman, just wondering if you used short shaft or long shaft EMG 25k push-pull control knobs?

I will look for the insulated wires and plan to shield the pickup cavities as you suggested. I am thinking of creating a smaller enclosure in the control cavity where the controls are, sealing the F-hole, and shielding the closed smaller cavity to try to control for noise. Maybe have a rear cavity cover for entry. I will have to work on all of that. Received the Novak pickups and JTEX Distillers, so I will order the EMG volume knobs when I determi the correct shaft length. Thanks!

I actually haven't used EMG (or any) 25k push/pull pots. I have however used EMG 25k stacked/concentric pots (in my Gibson EB-0) and regular ones (in my Starfire). The standard 25k pots in my Starfire were the long shaft ones and fulfill their purpose flawlessly. I have a feeling the short shaft ones are intended to be mounted to a pickguard, as they would be on a Fender, so they may not be long enough to go through the top of a Starfire, though I can't say for sure.

 

[RVBASS]

OK, I will go with the long shaft version. Thanks!

 

[edwin]

Krysh, that would be the one way Guild could convince me to buy a new Starfire!

RVBASS, I forgot to mention, regarding noise - Starfires are a little tricky since it's such a huge cavity, so you can't simply line the entire cavity to shield the bass. That said, I still managed to get mine surprisingly quiet, using high quality shielded wire for all the controls and copper shielding tape in the pickup cavities. You will always get some 60-cycle hum from Bisonics, though Novaks are the most subtle in that department. Either way, they are all single-coils, without a dummy coil, so the 60-cycle will be there, unless the pickups are dialed in equally, so they cancel the hum. The Distiller will not introduce extra hum though. It is for all intents and purposes a silent unit, as long as everything is wired correctly.

I would suggest that the cavities are perfectly shield-able.

 

[RVBASS]

Edwin, nice work. I actually had yours in mind for a shielded enclosure. What type of tool did you use for cutting out the back cover, and what is the white edge lining that you used? I have all the parts now, but won’t be able to get to it until the end of the month. Thanks.

 

[edwin]

Edwin, nice work. I actually had yours in mind for a shielded enclosure. What type of tool did you use for cutting out the back cover, and what is the white edge lining that you used? I have all the parts now, but won’t be able to get to it until the end of the month. Thanks.

It was done for me at Woodsong's Lutherie in Boulder by Mike Stephens. I have no idea how he did it but the white edge lining is pretty standard binding material. I have electronic skills but zero woodworking skills.

I would like to point out that with a maple body, it's unlikely that you'll get the classic Phil Lesh tone. I'm not saying it's not worth doing or that it would be way off, but body wood makes a big difference in my experience. Casady had maple Starfires by comparison.

 

[RVBASS]

Thanks, Edwin.

I belong to a maker space here and they have a big wood shop, and electronics shop, so I will work with them on it.

I'm not actually going for the Phil sound with this one. I'm looking to create a nice hollow wooden tone using the filters and Novak BS-DS pickups and use the bass with my jazz band. I think the components that I plan to put in there along with a good preamp (I have a Walter Woods and others) will provide a nice unique sound, hopefully representative of an upright.

 

[edwin]

Thanks, Edwin.

I belong to a maker space here and they have a big wood shop, and electronics shop, so I will work with them on it.

I'm not actually going for the Phil sound with this one. I'm looking to create a nice hollow wooden tone using the filters and Novak BS-DS pickups and use the bass with my jazz band. I think the components that I plan to put in there along with a good preamp (I have a Walter Woods and others) will provide a nice unique sound, hopefully representative of an upright.

Sounds like a great plan! I'm sure you'll keep us posted!

 

[Happy Face]

I would suggest that the cavities are perfectly shield-able.

Ya old show-off!
Nice to see you here again.

Unless you are in the studio, who cares if there is a bit of 60 hum. And there should not be any hum in the studio in any case
Or am I, yet again, deluded?

 

[lungimsam]

I know a repair guy who’s motto is something like: “If your bass is hummin’; I can make it sing!”

 

[edwin]

Ya old show-off!
Nice to see you here again.

Unless you are in the studio, who cares if there is a bit of 60 hum. And there should not be any hum in the studio in any case
Or am I, yet again, deluded?

Some studios do hum. I remember an interview with a bassist recording in a pretty famous studio, where he had to sit a certain way to get his single coil basses to be quiet. I wish I could remember the details.

 

[chazmo]

I know a repair guy who’s motto is something like: “If your bass is hummin’; I can make it sing!”

Brilliant!

 

[Happy Face]

Some studios do hum. I remember an interview with a bassist recording in a pretty famous studio, where he had to sit a certain way to get his single coil basses to be quiet. I wish I could remember the details.

Vague memory of a studio in Marin trying to track down external electrical interference (noise). I think it was a central air con, but only when it fired up or turned off.

Damn, all of that "always cross power and audio cable at 90 degrees" stuff still pops into mind when I'm wrestling with a wire rat's nest at home.