1961 Starfire: Is it a II or III?

[X-170AB]

Excited to find this Starfire in the UK, where older Guilds are quite rare! The serial number (178xx) dates it to 1961. The guitar is generally in great condition, other than needing a thorough cleaning. There's hardly even any buckle wear on the back. Take a look at the photos:

Besides being my first Starfire, this gives me 2 things I've been wanting for awhile–my first guitar with Dynasonics, and first guitar with a Bigsby. The Dynas really have that snap and twang, I like both the neck and bridge sound. As has been mentioned, they are quite unbalanced in volume. I have to turn the bridge's volume knob about 2 notches above the neck's to get nearly equal output.

From all I can tell, the guitar seems original, with a few exceptions: the original Sta-Tites were replaced by a different set of Grovers (but were included in the case), and the electrics have seen some replaced wiring. I'm not completely sure if the bridge is original; maybe someone can chime in?

Of course the trem says "Bigsby", not "Guild". Knowing the story of how the Guild-branded Bigsbys came about, could this guitar be one of the SF IIs with a dealer-added unit, or was it more likely added at the factory, before Guild had their own-branded tremolos? Unfortunately the label is missing, so no clues there. I'd be interested in what Hans has to say in this regard.

 

[Walter Broes]

That's very nice!!! I guess the Bigsby could be original, could be dealer-added, could be a player-add-on. Either way, it looks to be from the same era as the guitar.

You can get some more balance out of the pickups by shimming the lead pickup if there's room for it. Getting the pickup body closer to the strings works better for that than just raising the polepieces, and you don't want those giant magnets too close to the strings anyway, or they'll start interfering with the strings and pulling them out of tune.

On mine, I have the lead pickup top very close to the strings (with a spacer underneath the pickup), and the poles adjusted under the pickup surface - the pickup will sound a little bit fatter and less piercing that way too.

 

[AcornHouse]

Aside from the non-Guildsby Bigsby, the bridge is the type that's on the non-bigsby Starfires, like my IV. You usually see an aluminum bridge for the Guildsby models. Whether that was different on this early one will need Hans' eagle eye and knowledge. But I'm going to guess a II with an added bigsby.

EDIT: Just checked the Bible, and Hams does show an early 1960 with a non-Guild branded Bigsby, but it does indeed have an aluminum bridge; so I'm going to stick with my guess of II with an added Bigsby.

 

[walrus]

Very nice guitar! Love the finish!

walrus

 

[hansmoust]

1961 Starfire: Is it a II or III?

Hello X-170AB,

Nice guitar! At this point it doesn't really matter whether this guitar started out as a Starfire II or a III; it's basically the same guitar!

Having said that I would like to add the following:

1) This type of Bigsby, with the U.S. Patent Marking on the front was (as far as I know) used for the 'licensed' Bigsby units that were marketed by Selmer in the U.K. and possibly by other firms in other countries than the U.S. I'm curious to know if this Bigsby unit has the 'license' marking on the backside of the unit as well!

2) The Hagstrom AdjustoMatic bridge points to a Starfire II, but obviously it's not proof it started out as a Starfire II.

3) Also, the B-3 type Bigsby would be somewhat unusual on a Starfire III, although Guild did use these units on various models during the early '60s.

If we're looking at a 'licensed' version of the Bigsby unit, it's more likely that it was installed at a later date and since the guitar was bought in the U.K. it would all make sense.

I'm not sure what's going on with the toggle switch fastening plate! It should be fastened by 3 little screws!

Keep us posted!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[drc]

yep I love the look of that guitar!! Great wood tone/finish

 

[MLBob]

Beautiful guitar!

Bob

 

[Jeff Haddad]

Great looking guitar!

 

[X-170AB]

Thanks to Hans for the info, and to everyone for the congratulations!

That's interesting about the U.S. Patent marking being for other countries. I guess it makes it more likely (if not certain) that the Bigsby was added in the UK. I also didn't realize that this was a different model (B-3) than the standard – as I mentioned, this is my first Starfire.

The toggle switch cover seems firmly in place, but you're right – no screws! I guess this may also have been added later.

I thought you might enjoy a few side-by-side photos of the Starfire with my '59 T-100. In shape, the two guitars seem nearly identical, but they do feel different – the T-100 feels lighter and more resonant, the Starfire more solid and 'damped' acoustically. I imagine this is mainly due to the added hardware, and also maybe the difference in woods (maple vs. mahogany):

 

[guildman63]

Whether it was born as a II or a III would make no difference to me. Great guitar!

 

[ravnhaus]

Beautiful guitar. Love the top. Stunning. I bet the sound matches the look.
Blondie is pretty sweet as well...

 

[hansmoust]

Thanks to Hans for the info.

Hello X-170AB,

There's a PM for you in your mailbox!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Sal]

Nice score! The finish on a guitar like this is maybe the biggest reason I lust after vintage instruments. Stunning!