12-String CTS Sufferers Unite

[Scratch]

Being a fella who favors 12ers, I routinely suffer CTS or 'Constant Tuning Syndrome'. You know what I mean... That baby is nearly dead on, but you just know a tweak on the 'B' strings would make her sweeter yet. Next thing ya know you're tweaking the 'Gs', then the 'As' and next thing ya now its all out of whack and you break out the tuner. Play a couple of songs and tweak that 'B' one more time and swear not to touch it again as I tweak the 'G', 'A',... :? :? To make it worse, I have it near perfect, than pick up the mouth harp only to find I need to tweak the 'B' to get it 'Just Right'...

Anyway, what's you favorite Chromatic Tuner? I have about six or seven and bounce around between digital and the ole needle (which I find to be more accuurate).

Thoughts?

 

[12stringer]

I don't use a tuner ... but here is how I tune my 12er...(You did ask for thoughts )
First I get the Hi E's in tune with a harmonica or pitch pipe...
Then I get the B string in tune with the E...every thing else pretty much depends on these two being in tune with each other...
Next I tune the open High G string to the Hi E 3rd fret...then the low G
Next the open High D string to the B string 3rd fret...then the low D
I will then check the High D string 2nd fret with the high E open string
Next the High A string with the G strings 2nd fret ...then the low A
I then check the A strings fretted at the 2nd fret with the B strings open
Next the low E with the D string 2nd fret and also the Hi Es...If those three work I have it made in the shade. 8)

That's pretty much my routine if anyone cares to decipher it, but it works pretty good for me...
Often playing outside the tuning goes wonky on the upper octave strings, usually the A, D and G...so if things are not sounding right I will first make sure that the Hi B and Hi E strings are in tune with each other....then check the upper Octave A D and G against them as originally explained...then the lower octaves...if the tuning is still off it can only be the low E strings which are easy to check.
My favorite chord to strum and check tuning is a G chord with the B string fretted at the 3rd fret as well...By strumming the D,G,B and hi E strings together, everything should sound great..if not the D should be in tune with the fretted B string and the G in tune with the fretted Hi E string. It alway comes down to having the B and E strings in tune with each other...everything else works off of that.
Wow...the coffee has really got me wired to type all of this out... :lol:
My apologies if the above leads to brain cramping....would be better to have it on DVD :lol:

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have found that by flattening the bass E string [.047] slightly and also doing the same with both B strings, my 12 strings sound the best, both open and capo ed up to the 3rd fret.
This compensates for the difference in the string sizes for the Bass E strings and B strings always need to be flattened for my ear.

If I plan to play capo ed from the 3rd fret and up higher, I tune the guitar with the capo attached at the 3rd fret.


As far as tuners go, most do a fine job but I like my Sabine best.

12 string guitars can sure try a persons patience.

 

[taabru45]

What happened :? Wasn't it in tune when you bought it? :lol: Steffan

 

[12stringer]

I have found that by flattening the bass E string [.047] slightly and also doing the same with both B strings, my 12 strings sound the best, both open and capo ed up to the 3rd fret.
This compensates for the difference in the string sizes for the Bass E strings and B strings always need to be flattened for my ear.

Yes I have noticed that often the low E needs tweaking when capoed at the 3rd fret...I will give your idea a try ...Thanks

 

[12stringer]

What happened :? Wasn't it in tune when you bought it? :lol: Steffan

:lol: :lol:
If only they would stay in tune right from the get go :wink:

 

[killdeer43]

Anyway, what's you favorite Chromatic Tuner? I have about six or seven and bounce around between digital and the ole needle (which I find to be more accuurate).

Thoughts?

I have a few tuners here and there but I most often use a Korg CA-10 and I tune my 12s to D. My tuners hold well and just a little light tweaking brings everyone around. I really don't have a problem with CTS. Sounds painful, though! :roll:

Joe

 

[kostask]

Hi,

I used to have a variety of tuners (Korg, Sabine, and Seiko). I ended up giving them away to friends when I bought a Peterson VS-II used on eBay. Its really the main tuner that I use now. However, I also bought the Turbo Tuner when it first came out, and its excellent as well. The Peterson does have their "sweetened" tunings, which actually do sound a little bit better.

Recently, I bought the Peterson iStrobosoft application for the iPhone. Sort of really too bad that I bought the Peterson VS-II, and the Turbo Tuner, as it is as good as the Turbo Tuner and the VS-II, but has a brighter, clearer display than either. It is as accurate as either of the dedicated tuners, too. It is a little jumpy, but has a nice noise filter feature, and also an input gain setting. All for $9.99. It doesn't have the sweetened tuning like the VS-II, but I'm hoping that this will show up as a future software upgrade or as an extra cost option. Peterson even offers a 1/4" adapter for use with electric guitars, and even a tiny little microphone that fits into the headphone jack to allow the iPod Touch to be used (the iPod Touch doesn't have a microphone normally). These are extra cost, but useful if you have need of them.

Kostas

 

[Scratch]

Great tip, Randy. I'll give that a shot.

Thanks Kostas. I think it was a Peterson I borrowed from Curtis at Arlington last month. Seemed I spent most of that weekend trying to get 'Zeke' in tune with my Korg Digital...

Joe: I also have a cheaper Korg CA-30 and it is a better tuner than the 40.00 digital model in my opinion. It's just a wee bit off the mark with the harmonica, but I can fine tune within a minute or two.

I'm nearly tone deaf in my left ear due to a shooting range incident many years ago, and I rely on a tuner as result. I ordered a Boss TU-12 from MF over the weekend. At 90.00 it is the most expensive tuner I've purchased; hope it is worth the bucks...

Thanks to all for the advice/tips...

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I found that by getting the bridge saddle fully intonated (not just the "B" strings), tuning is much simpler, even when capoed up to the 5th fret.

A bit of effort, but the results make it worth it!

 

[Scratch]

Another good tip, Terry. Thanks... I'll see Ross Jennings about making that adjustment to my 12ers when I take them in to him for their annual checkup...

 

[killdeer43]

Another good tip, Terry. Thanks... I'll see Ross Jennings about making that adjustment to my 12ers when I take them in to him for their annual checkup...

You take your guitars in for an "annual checkup?"
I'm impressed! I can hardly remember to take MYSELF in for an annual checkup! Of course, it could be part of that 'selective memory' process. :wink:

Good on ya',
Joe

 

[12 string]

Being a fella who favors 12ers, I routinely suffer CTS or 'Constant Tuning Syndrome'.

I thought CTS meant "Can't Tune Anything"...

A Sabine Metrotune MT9000 serves my needs quite nicely. The little green lights tell me I'm in tune even if I can't find my specs.

A saddle with at least a precompensated B is a must. Having a saddle made with more compensation is definitely worth it, but I have never gone so far as to widen the saddle slot. No matter what you do, the best you can hope for is a compromise. At some point I just stop tweaking and get down to the real business of playing.

' Strang

 

[Scratch]

I know it probably sounds silly, Joe, but I can be a bit anal about my gits :? :wink: I mentioned in an earlier post that on occasion I run by Ross' place just to chat and try to learn a bit about the fine art of luthiery. When I do, I usually take one of mine and see if it, in his skilled eyes, has developed any issues that I'm unaware of. He lets me look through his cool glasses at tiny imperfections and stuff I'd just never even consider. He's able to tell me, for example, if the neck or bridge have negatively reacted to certain string choices etc. He never charges me for the look/see. One of the neatest folks I know and always willing to educate me. Sometimes I just shake my head like I know what he's saying, but I don't have a clue... :lol: I've come to realize I'll probably never be a luthier. Schooling is one thing; years of experience quite the other; I'm almost 62! :lol: :lol:

 

[killdeer43]

Scratch,

Forrest Gump would say, "Anal is as anal does," but we're all guilty to some extent, even though some are even in denial! :lol:

I guess I'll just envy your having a good relationship with a skilled luthier. And one of life's little perks is to constantly learn new 'things' until you can't anymore, which is where we'll all end up some day.
I'm 66+ now and looking forward every day to...carpe that doggone diem!!

Take care,
Joe