RIP Glenn Frey

Sandy,

You're right about the drugs. I didn't use any, so I forgot to throw them in the mix. I saw the documentary. Frey was a jerk. I don't think it would have been fun to be in a band with him, either. I bet the music would have been good, though. Real good.

I heard a piano album (okay, CD) he did and he played wonderfully. Lotta talent.

Again, I hope he got a chance to become a different person with his family.

Had dinner a few years with a bunch of old friends and the subject of "worst songs of all time" came up -- several named "Hotel California" as the song they hoped never to hear again this side of hell. I can think of a few I dislike more than that one, but it'd certainly make my top 20!

gilded said:

That's good to know, Neal. I really appreciate your sharing that information with us. I'm glad he had a chance to enjoy a family.

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I'm wondering if that's an example of how he can be when he's not under the influence of personality-damaging drugs? (I don't know if he was supposed to be "clean" at that stage in his life) I agree it's nice to know he wasn't always a complete dirtbag.
Seems like sooner or later we have to accept our heroes' weaknesses. Everybody's got 'em, but it seems their PR people always take pains to project a sympathetic image.
Except when they need to get the name in the papers again with bad behavior.
I myself have to acknowledge my hero John Lennon wasn't always as nice as I'd like to remember him.
On the other hand it's somehow more satisfying to cherish the memory of a "real person" than a myth.

gilded said:

Maybe part of you has to be ruthless to get to the top and stay there.

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Maybe not universal but certainly a known common paradigm:
The Beatles: Pete Best
The Rolling Stones: Brian Jones
And the whole Hollywood "myth" of the ruthless actor clawing their way to the top over the careers of both friends and competitors.
Those myths are about basic truths of human nature.

gilded said:

Lotta things happening at once back in the good old days; money, fame, girls, big egos, etc. Oh, I'm sorry, I meant to say Huge Egos! How could it not have blown up?

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And when you'r surrounded by an insulating layer of handlers and "crew", one starts to believe things that are constantly repeated, like "You're the greatest!". It's human nature.
H-ll, I'm beginning to see how the pressure to live up to that in itself could lead to self-destructive consumption of chemical mood modifiers.
Which in themselves cloud one's ability to love one's self enough to get off the path of "slow suicide".
(I wrote a song about it to help exorcise my own demons)
From that perspective it's even hard not to have a bit of sympathy for some of the current crop of cynically misbehaving attention-getters.

wileypickett said:

Had dinner a few years with a bunch of old friends and the subject of "worst songs of all time" came up -- several named "Hotel California" as the song they hoped never to hear again this side of hell. I can think of a few I dislike more than that one, but it'd certainly make my top 20!

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For me it's only because of being over-played.
I've come around to respect a lot of the "Classic Rock" I used to dislike for that and related reasons, like bands projecting images of sexist white trash or other repugnant "stuff", but a good song's a good song and a great session's a great session and I don't have the inclination to "judge" anymore.

wileypickett said:

Had dinner a few years with a bunch of old friends and the subject of "worst songs of all time" came up -- several named "Hotel California" as the song they hoped never to hear again this side of hell. I can think of a few I dislike more than that one, but it'd certainly make my top 20!

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Easily in my top five Glenn. If I never hear it again, it would be just fine (sorry, Pascal!).

twocorgis said:

Easily in my top five Glenn. If I never hear it again, it would be just fine (sorry, Pascal!).

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No problem Sandy! It's still one of the best all time songs ever written.
Very easy to play too, I can't recall the number of times I played the lead guitar part note for note, and the simplicity of it only adds to the act of genius it took to put it together if you ask me....

I'm with Al: The only thing that has been detrimental to the song over the years is its overplaying, but I, for one, never tire of hearing it.

I completely understand the subjectivity of musical taste, but I'd be curious to hear what criteria is brought forth when classifying this master piece as a "bad" song. (Aside from politics and/or personality conflicts with creators).

And for the record: I'm ANYTHING BUT an Eagles fan... as a matter of fact Hotel California is probably the only number from the band that ever got my attention.

It's a highly subjective thing no doubt Pascal, but that song just grates on my nerves, and quite a bit of it might be due to overplay by the radio. I'm actually a big Joe Walsh fan, and like most of the stuff he did with The Eagles. There are songs I never tire of, like "Sweet Baby James" and even "Your Song", but "Hotel California" ain't one of them!

Eagles....a little something for everyone, like 'em or not. I remember quite a few peaceful, easy evenings listening to their music, or maybe it was the company I was keeping....I forget. eaceful:
RIP, Glenn.

Joe

bluesypicky said:

It's still one of the best all time songs ever written.
Very easy to play too, I can't recall the number of times I played the lead guitar part note for note, and the simplicity of it only adds to the act of genius it took to put it together if you ask me....

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Joe Walsh is one of my Favorite All time Guitarists. The reason being is the Simplicity of how he hears things and the way he conveys them through his guitar. Hotel California was a great example of that in my opinion. Last Year there was the HBO miniseries called "Sonic Highways" where the Foo Fighters went and recorded individual songs for their album titled the same in famous recording studios and cities across America. A different place for each song. They also had guest players come in and lay down tracks for each song. I loved the episode where they were recording at the old ranch House in California and they invited Joe Walsh to come play on that particular song. He sat down and listened to the rhythm track once and said "Cool, lets run this one." In one take he laid down one of the most heartfelt simple solos that I have ever heard and it was perfect. His response to everyone in awe was "Why use 5 notes in a space when 1 right one will do?" Love me some Joe Walsh.

Too much exposure to anything will kill your enthusiasm for it -- a song, an album, an artist.

Though I loved their albums when they came out, I can't bear to listen to most Beatles albums today, whereas I still enjoy the music of the Kinks, say, whose music wasn't shoved down my throat everehere, all the time. (At least that's how it often felt!)

But there are certain songs I disliked the very first time I heard them (including "Hotel California," "You've Got A Friend," "The Long and Winding Road," "Horse With No Name," etc.). Over-exposure doesn't explain why some songs, some artists, turn some people off.

As for why one person likes something and another person hates it, it's mainly subjective. I could say I don't care for those particular songs because they feel, to me, overly sweet, empty, superficial, facile, vapid -- the musical equivalent of Lite-Beer.

Please don't take any offense at my turning up my nose at the Eagles. If you love their songs, great -- plenty of people share your enthusiasm.

There's stuff I love that most people never embraced, and never will. I understand that you may hate something that means the world to me. Nothing wrong with that -- I don't mind a bit!

Life would be insufferable if we all liked the same things.

wileypickett said:

Life would be insufferable if we all liked the same things.

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Indeed. There's probably too much of that already. I think some music wears better than others, and even that's highly subjective!

Glenn may not have been well liked by everyone, but there is no doubt that he a was an amazing talent, and that the musical world is a much better place because of his contributions. Neals story is a perfect example that people aren't always how they are presented in the media. As for Hotel California, I agree with Pascal that it is one of the greatest rock songs ever written. I have heard it at least 1000 times, and I am still blown away by not only the simplicity of the solo, but also by how well each guitar part blends with and is a perfect continuation of the one before it. I don't know if the recorded solo was initially improvised or was laid out note for note, but that song is a perfect example of a band playing in complete sync. The Eagles were a great band, and Glenn was a big reason for that.

RIP Glenn, you will be missed!

txbumper57 said:

Joe Walsh is one of my Favorite All time Guitarists. The reason being is the Simplicity of how he hears things and the way he conveys them through his guitar. Hotel California was a great example of that in my opinion. Last Year there was the HBO miniseries called "Sonic Highways" where the Foo Fighters went and recorded individual songs for their album titled the same in famous recording studios and cities across America. A different place for each song. They also had guest players come in and lay down tracks for each song. I loved the episode where they were recording at the old ranch House in California and they invited Joe Walsh to come play on that particular song. He sat down and listened to the rhythm track once and said "Cool, lets run this one." In one take he laid down one of the most heartfelt simple solos that I have ever heard and it was perfect. His response to everyone in awe was "Why use 5 notes in a space when 1 right one will do?" Love me some Joe Walsh.

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Veer - there is a similar story that keeps making the rounds. A big name producer called in a studio guitarist to add his magic to a hoped for "hit single". (I actually heard the story with the name of the producer and the name of the song but all I remember is that the guitarist was Jeff "Skunk" Baxter). The guitarist listened to the track, pondered a bit, said "There's nothing I can add to make it better" and left the studio with a fat check, leaving behind a very happy producer.

guildman63 said:

Glenn may not have been well liked by everyone, but there is no doubt that he a was an amazing talent, and that the musical world is a much better place because of his contributions. Neals story is a perfect example that people aren't always how they are presented in the media. As for Hotel California, I agree with Pascal that it is one of the greatest rock songs ever written. I have heard it at least 1000 times, and I am still blown away by not only the simplicity of the solo, but also by how well each guitar part blends with and is a perfect continuation of the one before it. I don't know if the recorded solo was initially improvised or was laid out note for note, but that song is a perfect example of a band playing in complete sync. The Eagles were a great band, and Glenn was a big reason for that.

RIP Glenn, you will be missed!

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The show that I saw last summer was one in which the band was in complete musical harmony, at the absolute top of their game. It was, simply, one of the most astonishingly wonderful concerts I have ever attended.

And while I grew up with the Eagles, and would consider myself a minor "fan", they were never in my Top Ten, so my comments are not those of a fawning Eagles devotee. I went to the show expecting to be underwhelmed, unsure whether they could still "bring it", concerned that the whole evening might sound like a sad attempt to recapture a day that is long gone.

Instead, I was treated to excellent musicianship, unbelievably tight vocals, and great stage presence. They somehow infused the songs with freshness, playing around with tempo and structure, remarkable given the umpteen times they have played them on stage. They definitely did not sound like they were just playing off of their album.

You have to separate the person and the music. Just because you like someone's music doesn't mean you have to admire their other qualities. There are plenty of complete schmucks (by all accounts) making music I care about, and lotsa nice folks making lousy music.

wileypickett said:

You have to separate the person and the music. Just because you like someone's music doesn't mean you have to admire their other qualities. There are plenty of complete schmucks (by all accounts) making music I care about, and lotsa nice folks making lousy music.

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I agree. Separate the music from the schmuck. Couldn't have put it any better myself. :encouragement:

Joe

+1 on the "overplayed" argument for "Hotel California". I think it's a great song, used to love singing along with it, I just can't hear again. Much like "American Pie".

walrus

Was never an Eagles fan, way too mellow for me growing up. For i.e., it is really hard to like Eagles if you love the Who, or this was my own experience.
Still, interesting how involved Glenn was in the songwriting. always liked Take it Easy. I erroneously thought he was a small piece to the band and most remember him from Miami Vice, and loathed that Heat is On song. Now that I am older, glad to hear how many good songs he wrote or was instrumental part of. I like Neal's story of him and his daughter. I will remember that...

walrus said:

+1 on the "overplayed" argument for "Hotel California". I think it's a great song, used to love singing along with it, I just can't hear again. Much like "American Pie".
walrus

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Yeah there's stuff you don't like instantly, like Wiley and Westerly Wood said, based on personal tastes, and there's stuff you grow sick of from over-exposure.
To me the secret of enjoying as much music as possible is to stay open-minded, like Neal said, because even artists you may have personal antipathy for can surprise you. ("Separate the shmuck from the music")
It's how I was able to appreciate "Panama" in spite of my severe dislike of David Lee Roth.
And your favorites can too, for that matter.
My hero John Lennon with Elton John? ("Whatever Gets You Through the Night")
I was mortified.
And then there's stuff that does somehow seem to mellow with age. Sometimes just broadening your musical exposure causes one to appreciate stuff one formerly dismissed.
I've experienced all of those.
But I still can't accept "Free Bird".
And I'm not sure even Duane Allman could have rescued "Ramblin' Man"
And I infinitely prefer "Doctor My Eyes" to "Take it Easy", either by author Jackson Browne OR the Eagles.
OK that oughta spark some further uproar.
:biggrin-new:

adorshki said:

I myself have to acknowledge my hero John Lennon wasn't always as nice as I'd like to remember him.

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But unlike Frey, he has a wife who has made it her reason for living to make sure we only see his good side.

walrus